30mm

[Nicholas Ball]

Instead of merging, why not just create a 30mm class?

however, if this was done, we would need it supported, 2 entries would look a bit daft!!!

[Salter]

Nick
Very interesting reply especially about the Resin Bas figures.As we have the ear of Euros chief judge over the next 4weeks if a concensus of opinion can be reached for Euro 2015 a better comp can be availiable.Especially to enhance the little fellows ie 30mm.
Euro offers 5 classes so merge the Bas relief into one class not two.Then make a 30mm class for singles and sets.
leave the rest as it is.
At Euro of the seven Golds only one was a 30mm.
30mm needs protecting for the future in this country.Euro is its showpage so for future painters collectors who dont go to the Europe shows it is their only vehicle.
Euro want us involved again next year so what better way for flats to sort their own agenda.
Promotion on the balcony was what we were about so we mustnt loose the momentum.
Dave S

[Nicholas Ball]

Oh this is going to be fun and may ruffle a  few feathers!!!

Firstly, with regards the traditional Zinnfiguren and bas relief in different classes.

I think this is the correct option, however they are painted. Zinnfiguren are engraved, whereas Bas relief are sculptured, two different techniques, two classes.

I have tried painting Bas Relief figures and I have found up to date that the resin is not that sharp! and the figures are generally thicker. Engraving is by far a greater skill, and as with everything nowadays, the old master craftsmen are dying out, next we will be getting 3D flats, a drawing on a computer, done by machine!  skill??? I don't think so.

A 30mm figure beautifully painted is in my opinion a far more satisfying and in a way, a more interesting object to look at, and sets are even better, Obviously I find a well engraved set ( mohr ) is much easier to paint than a blob!! and although painting them is nearly the same technique as a larger figure, it is a bit more difficult to get it looking right, especially with shadows etc.
And therefore, yes, I do think they should be in a class of their own, as it would encourage more artists to enter in competition. This year at Euro there were only 2 entries.

Small is beautiful ( well I would say that, everyone else is taller than me!!!  )

To answer Glen, I recon the average age is around the 50 year Mark, but there are a couple of  20 something year olds that are exceptionally talented.










 

[marko]

I am in the camp that believes you should have a separate category for 30 mm.  The approach is a bit different for 30 mm vs 54 mm in my mind and it is unfair to lump them together - similar to 1/72 vs. 1/32 in the figure world.  (Or perhaps I should say my style is different given the level of detail being presented.  One of the reasons I love Mike Taylor's work is he can has an exquisite level of detail whatever the size.)


To generalize much of the detail in 30 mm needs to be suggested vs. engraved in the larger sizes.  Quite a trick to that which I for one am still learning.

Personally I am still a big fan of 30 mm having a couple of thousand in my stash and don't seem to take to larger figures as much but, that is very much personal taste.  I find the eclectic nature of the 30 mm figures to be to my taste with such a wide variety to choose from.  Where else can you find a Burgundian Wedding, Medieval Fire Fighters and a variety of camp scenes from multiple armies?


mark 

[Glen]

My exposure to 30mm flats has been limited; I much prefer the larger scales. While there are diamonds in both, what I've seen so far is that 30mm generally seem to have less overall detail and less consistent detail than the larger scales - especially in faces. I've also noticed that the larger scales, given equal painting skills and painted in oils, tend to look better to the eye; especially to the uninitiated. Acrylics seem to have a more even playing field, but you are still painting a 30mm piece of variable detail.


All that said, I am curious as to the motivation/reasoning behind the suggestion to separate the 30mm out from the larger scales. Did someone walk away unhappy...? Another question, and alfsboy hinted at this, is there any data on the average age of the 30mm flat painter? My guess is that they would tend to be older and require magnification. I know I do... Painting the smaller scales could be increasingly problematic and forcing painters to go to larger sizes. Ergo, fewer 30mm pieces on the comp tables.



Now, whether this might be grounds for separating 30mm (and perhaps up to 45mm) from the larger scales depends, I think, on the judging system. An IPMS first, second, third style carves everything up into multiple categories divided by scale/size, era, subject, etc. and basically spreads things out. It shares the wealth among 40-50 categories. The open, variable number of gold, silver, bronze medal, system uses two basic categories - out of the box 'painters' and 'open' for heavily converted and scratch-built subjects. It tends to reward the painter based on a measured set of skills regardless of size, paint medium, era, etc. Scale is not a factor. Since there's no limit to how many medals can be awarded, one big category should be ok.


Glen

[Michael_43]

Hallo,
I think a lot of collectors of 30 mm flats have more than enough figures when they collected them many years.
You need some lives to paint them all.
I think you need young collectors and a good marketing with good engraved figures, good castings, good pictures and
nice pictures of good diorama´s. For example Glorious Empires has such a good marketing.
Then you must have this 30 mm figures, too.
It´s easier to build a diorama with 30 mm figures, because you can buy 300.000 figures with similar designs.
A flat in 54 or 100 mm is for your vitrine. But you can use a round figure for your vitrine, too.

Best regards

Michael

[Salter]

Personally i am in the camp of the larger figures to paint.however when you see examples of 30mm sets they look amazing.At euro in the competion classes there was a lack of 30mm.What you did have were 2 classes for bas or resin figures.I say lump these into the general classes i cannot see the distinctions made when its how you paint.
If this was done a 30mm class could be created.you are not going to loose the larger flats they are to commercial.
you can repromote 30mm and give its rightful place the alternative is a decline not in personal collections but in thegeneral comps.
Dave S

[alfsboy]

I am still into 30mm ,considering any larger to be mutinous...at least until my eyeballs give out 

[Brian]

It has been suggested the at the big shows that 30mm figures should have a separate class in the comp's, what do you think and how about the old 30mm is it being left behind or is there still a place for them? 
I have to admit that 2D do not sell a lot of these little guy's