Todays painters

[blaster]

Hi all,

The reason that I got into flats was that the coverage of subject matter differed vastly in content, Emphasis and artistry from the current trend round figure modeling.
Content- besides the vast coverage on military history, there is this amazing coverage on non military subjects unparalleled in round figure production, across all time periods and culture.
Emphasis - in round figure production, most of it is fixated on one period, in a scale unappealing to me. The 30 mm scale is perfect for me as I want to do compact dioramas.
Artistry - I find the whole concept of flats, from designing, engraving to editing wholly removed from that of figure modeling, bordering on artistic concepts.
I don't think that introducing new fantasy ideas into flats will broaden its timeless appeal to a breed of dedicated collectors, makers who still view the world before Galileo....

Rgds victor

[errant49]

Don't worry Brian, keep pushing, there will be something left fot the glory of flats !
Eric

[Brian]

I started this thread to see if doing more then the wonderful figures we have showing military history is a way forward for our hobby, maybe we are just to stuck (including myself) with the figures from Mignot, Hafer, Mohr and Frank to really give the new guys a chance.
We've some great designers and engravers trying to tempt us with there figures away from military subjects, maybe we could give them a chance whether it's fantasy or civilian.

But thanks all and paint what grabs you, but keep painting and collecting flats, and when my figures are available I hope you all buy one or two 
Just one more thing, it was hard enough to get me on the committee   I am not taking over the Society just pushing (maybe to much sometimes) for the future of the flat figure        

[gerry Larkin]

Hi Oh Great one !!
There is an vast amount of military/historical subjects in flats yes,but and the big BUT just look beyond, we need to promote all types of flats, engraving any subject well is a challege  for the engraver,  but Fantasy  subjects sell! they are popular, ive no axe to grind in subject matter, i like historical and Fantasy, but a well engraved figure is a must! what engravers such as Lepeltier are engraving at the moment is nothing short of  brillance  Benedikt widmann is editing some superb stuff recently! and Andreas troste is engraving  some superb flats!, ok so some people will never change,  you have got to see the vast amount what is  available and not only paint what you are safe with! there are so many differant subjects and not just military!!  there will never be another Frank or Moer but there are some superb engravers out there!! so guys open your minds!! look and see beyound your realm of what you paint, you will be surprised to what you see, and its fun every now and then to take a diversion, at the end of the day it is the painters choice , what he or she paints, but dont be  Blinkered guys you never know, some other then Historical subjects may appeal to you!    Cheers.. Gerry.

[Nicholas Ball]

I'm willing to give it a go    Mr. King, oh Great One.

[Brian]

Before this goes any further I'm not going to stand for anything, at shows I only do what members of this Society have been doing for many years, trying to encourage people to have a go at flats.  No more of this Brian for President stuff the title of King will be enough
To get back to the subject we do have fantasy subjects in flats but maybe we're not making the most of them as usually on the society table is military history figures as this is our main interest, maybe we should start doing some other subjects aswell.
 

[mike]

Nick. I second that.  BFFS (Brian's flat figure society)
Mike

[Nicholas Ball]

Brian's hit the nail on head, and his fingers and  thumbs 

The main problem is getting painters to stick with it.  They try one and don't quite gel, say they can't do it and then give up and go back to the rounds. We need to try to get them to keep at it, as with anything practice makes perfect, and the one thing Brian, Chris  and I are always emphsising to those we meet at show's is  "IT WILL GET BETTER" but there's always this block.  If round painter's are going more into Fantasy, then maybe we do need to go this way a bit to keep their interest?

Personnally from experience by attending these show's, I have seen  a LOT more interest in flats, and this is all due to Brian, who has pushed and pulled many a guest to the stand, whether they wanted to or not and being able to offer flats on the day by getting suppliers like Western Miniatures and Rafa to give him some on approval to sell.
He has also done a lot for their buisnesses as well, so its a win-win situation really.

BRIAN for President, thats what I say

[Brian]

Well done guys and thanks for your comments, as Gerry said we are at shows and two point are made clear.
 
First is availability, yes we have the internet but the buyer would like to see the figure or set before buying, do we need more commercial outlets at the shows?
 
Two is the painting, the newcomer see some of the best painting we have to offer and say I cant do that, they can with support from the likes of us it's just a different technique.
 
I have been selling figures at shows for the last year or so and I've got through more fantasy then anything else       

[Corporal_Trim]

Well, flats have a long history and a corresponding legacy of figures depicting historical subjects accumulated for over 100 years.  Fantasy is comparatively new and hasn't yet penetrated the world of flats so much yet. And I'll be perfectly happy if it never does.   

 I like well-written fantasy fiction from "The Worm Ouroboros" and "Conan" stories up to today's authors like Patrick Rothfuss and Joe Abercrombie.  Yet another "Lord of the Rings" movie ? I'm there. But to my eyes, most fantasy figures don't appeal. As Nick says, "what is fantasy anyway" ?  Who says it has to be a world of scantily clad barbarian babes, wizards, paladins, elves and orcs ?  Yet most of it conforms to these accepted archetypes.  Long legged, big-busted, oversized sword-wielding women attired in half-armor and tiny swaths of strategically placed furs - rather ludicrous when you think about it. Take a browse through the pages of Cool Mini or Not sometime, there's a glut of this stuff being foisted on the figure buying public. 

I'm unconvinced that the world of flat figures needs an infusion of fantasy subjects to attract new flats painters and collectors.  Gerry called it right I think, it's a niche hobby. I promote flats as much as possible on my blog and elsewhere such as on The Miniatures Page.  But there seems to be a lot of trepidation associated with painting flats amongst the round and wargames figure painting fraternity.  Which I think can be attributed to shift from flats as simply painted toy soldiers to the growth of connoisseur, contest-worthy painting as the accepted standard. People are afraid their own work won't measure up in comparison and maybe breaking down that hurdle would do more to bring new blood into the flats hobby than luring them to it through a proliferation of fantasy kitsch.

[gerry Larkin]

Hi Willie good choices my Friend!! just keep that brush steady   Brian,the only way your going to change the interest in flats  for painters young and old is to get to  look at what people are painting! there not flats mate, your going to either love them or not, thats Fact! most kids will hand there money over to Games workshop because there mates are doing it, flats should be pushed more , and Brian your doing it, slow process but if you convince one  you can  convince another, people have got to want to paint flats, you cant force them! , subject matter is there, fantasy , military etc etc  display of flats at shows we have attended have proved positive don't you think? again slow process, they may get a passing glance from the die hard round figure painters.,I've asked mates why they don't paint them, you get the answer, 'I've had a go' but didn't get the result Iwas looking for! so they are in the camp of having a go but probably or maybe not  ever try painting a flat again!.  I realy think most folk think flats painted well are a art form, bit like painting on canvas, but will not look at the real picture.There's all kinds of painting standards, maybe this attitude will never change i don't know, but Flats SHOULD be pushed and promoted at every show etc, if you get one youngster or  accomplished painter then that's more than a start, and Brian  hats off to you mate, your passion for flats is whats its all about... Gerry.

[willie]

  Hi Gerry. I agree with you fantasy is fun. I would like to see some figures on 20.000  Leagues Under the Sea. Captain Nemo the Sub and the Diving Suits . What about the set of the all Girls Boarding school. I like the set of bring your pet to school day. I think that all of it is fun to paint if you want to . Now with that said. My fellow Paint Drinkers, Lead Munchers, Oil Color Nuts ,Area 52 Followers  and Adams Family club member   I am on my way to Victoria Secrete to do some paint research and maybe  a valentines gift for someone special    Willie

[Brian]

OK so what you all saying, all is OK and the future is assured for the flat figure?
All the other figure modeling disciplines are going over to fantasy, WW1 and 2 and later, us we're still in the last century if not the one before. How are we going to get the new generation of painters interested in flats when it can be a history lesson instead of fun painting
Forget tin or resin it's the subject I'm asking about
So again what do you think?    

[gerry Larkin]

Lets face it most if not ALL flats are based on famous paintings or illustrations  military or fantasy take your pic! i love fantasy personaly, as well as fairy tale and comic book art, you have your rivet counters in both camps believe me! but when it comes to defining a flat  thats easy, a flat ,zinnfiguren or tin figure is just that! a flat engraved tin figure, all others labeled flats are not ( oh i can see the hate mail already ) but guys and girls paint what you want , what ever makes you happy, Resin demi rounds are superb and all cudos to the sculptor!! ( Ken, Rafa ) to name but a few, my good friend Roy Hunt now sadly not with us, caused a bit of controversy to the die hard flattys when he realeased them, but boy are they good, you pay you money, you take  your pick, what i cant quiet get my head round are the painted bits of card or copper sheet! remember Euromil 2 years ago? now they really should be put in a class as mini profile paintings! not flats but skillfully painted!   Cheers  Gerry.

[willie]

 I agree with nick. One thing with fantasy is your are more open to colors where historical figures the uniform dictates your colors. As for pin ups sex sells and so does underwear  . Painting these figures gives you a understanding of skin tones.  Also I think that with historical figures you have to  research things and to some that is a bet hard   But it is up to the person on what he or she wants to paint. Willie