Flat engraving

[Glen]

Good luck with it! I've tried various procedures and seem to have settled into drawing on vellum, scanning and sizing the drawing in photoshop, printing, transferring the printed drawing to sheet plastic over a light box (another advantage of .015" plastic), cutting out the drawing, then start adding and shaping the putty.


As I mentioned, I tend to start at the top and work my way to the middle and bottom, but that's not sacred. Sometimes the pose dictates what you start on first. I do as much sculpting and smoothing on the putty as I can while it's still wet. Once cured I can go back and do any subsequent carving, detailing, cleanup and/or sanding before I start with fresh putty. Another aspect I concern myself with is three-dimensionality. I try to take into account the positioning of various parts and their relationship to other parts on any given pose - a boot pointing at you has more projection at the toe that a boot in side view. A chin extends out over the neck. Wrinkles rise and fall, belts and buttons are on top of clothing. All just like on a round figure. The difference is all of these are crammed into a 0.1 - 2mm thick piece of plastic and putty.


Cheers,


Glen

[mash3d]

Hi, Sorry for the late reply, I've been traveling. Thanks for the info. I'll have to do a bit of searching to see if I can find any type of Dressed slate. I remember seeing one video somewhere of one of the German figure makers flattening a piece of slate with what looked like a band saw. Unfortunately the video was in German. During my brief stay in Germany while in the army I only learned enough German to get dinner, beer and slapped by pretty girls.
I doubt that any type of slate one would buy at a flooring or tile place would be machined flat. It's one of those things I'll have to do more research into.


I'll have to try the epoxy putty method simply because I can get the supplies easier.
I do Have Aves Expoy putty to work with. When mixing it I've been using slightly more of the hardening compound instead of the 1/1 ratio they call for. And I have tons of plastic sheet.
The local hobby store sells a 11x14 Inch sheet At $3.50 a sheet.
[/size]I went to a local plastic/sign  supplier thinking I would get plastic sheet there cheaper there.  They had listed a 4x8 sheet of 20 thousands sheet styrene. I asked for one and the guy brought back a 4 feet X 8 feet sheet for $10.
So I'm set in that department.

[Glen]

Most two-part putties will hold just as fine a detail as anything else; just look at round figures. SOme are better than others. I use Aves Apoxie Sculpt on sheet plastic (I have lots of it) and I had considered using thin sheet brass or aluminum, but I found that the plastic is easier to cut with small straight and curved scissors. I use .015 or .020 thick plastic. Thinner plastic will curl as the putty cures; thicker putty is more difficult to cut. Cured Aves will carve, cut, sand, and drill easily enough. I usually sculpt small sections at a time starting at the top, then part of the mid-section, then something on the bottom. That way I'm not dragging fingers or tools through already sculpted, but uncured putty. Once it is cured, I can sand areas smooth and carve in additional and finer details before I add additional layers and start the process over again.


I have used Sculpy once on a Cheech Wizard cartoon piece from the '70s. I was put on glass, sculpted in one go, and baked on the glass. It was easily released from the glass without using any release agents. I understand fresh Sculpy can be added to already baked Sculpy using a Sculpy adhesive, but I haven't tried this. Do not use Sculpy on sheet plastic and bake it. Bad things happen...


Do go through Mark's post about Gary Dombrowski's pieces. Great stuff!


If you look at the Brian's pics, you can see the complexity of the engraving - in reverse of the actual casting. Tricky that; it requires planning and attention to detail. Also note the air channels that allow air to get out as the metal is poured in. Hard vulcanized rubber used in spin casting also have these. Someone here was trying to order slate blocks from Germany and have them shipped to the US, but it wasn't cheap. I don't know what became of that.


Slainte,


Glen

[Brian]

I suppose slate is slate but as said for figures it use as blocks and come in two's, these are "Dressed" so a flat surface is made on each as a pair and then the engraver can start work.
The Dressed slates are not easy to get and only available from a handful of suppliers and these are getting few every year, hard or soft I don't know but it's easy to cut and easier to make a mistake.

But have a go and see how you get on as it is a lot of fun!! even when it all go's wrong              

[marko]

For another approach you might also take a look at this:

http://garyminsculpt.blogspot.com

Gary Dumbrowski does some Bas Relief Figures with wonderful results.

Mark 

[mash3d]

Hi, thanks for the answers. I wasn't sure if slate came in different levels of hardness.
I'm going to find some slate over the Holidays and tinker with it.


Glen, I thought about using putty over a sheet of metal or plastic.
I wasn't sure how well it would hold fine detail though.
I know Sclupy has to be baked. 
AVES two part putty will dry very hard after a few hours. I haven't tried to carve it after wards though.
I may try and experiment with Hard Chavant NSP Clay. It doesn't dry but a mold can be made from it.

[Glen]

Slate is slate as far as I know. It is common in Germany (where flats originated) and probably other Euro countries as well. It's often used for roofing material. At least it was where I lived. Flats start out as artwork - a drawing - and are then engraved/carved into cut slate blocks. Some flats are one-sided, some are two-sided, but all I think are cast between two keyed blocks, then popped out when reasonably cool. It's a garage/kitchen industry for the most part. Mass production is relative - how long do you want to work at it over the weekend? Blocks engraved decades ago are still being used although they seem to change hands. Brian knows more about the process than I do. So does Joerg. They work together on various projects.


My efforts at producing flats (non-commercial) are non-traditional. I use putty over a sheet plastic outline, the sculpt, carve, sand, and cut. They are one offs, but a finished piece could be cast in resin - also non-traditional. So far. Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha...!


Cheers,

Glen

[marko]

Hello and welcome.


If you search for slate on the site I believe there have been several conversations about this over time and seem to recall Glen from this site asking the question a while ago as he was interested in creating his own figures.  If you hunt a bit it is out there.


Glen and Brian both have experience in this area and may be able to supply some insight.


mark 

[mash3d]

Hi, I'm a new member here. I'm somewhat familiar with flats. Just haven't had the chance to paint one yet.
I meet a very nice gentleman from your society at the Euromilitare show in 2009, for the life of me I cannot remember his name though.
And I recently got a chance to meet Penny Meyer at a SCAHMS meeting in Southern California.

The thing I'm curious about is I've watched few video's on the making of flat figures.
I know they do they engraving in slate. What I'm wondering about is it a particular type of slate?
If anyone has any information I would appreciate it.
Thanks