The Flat Figure Novice is cast...

[peter michael prow]

Theres an open studio area at work and often folk will sit with me, asking for tips and it's amazing how people in the hobby (especially kids) have been conditioned to think Theres a right and wrong way of painting. Thats pretty sad and I hope I change their view somewhat!
Be nice to think my painting did inspire

[PJDeluhery]

If you are a newbie, PLEASE read the last 4 posts. It will save you a lot of heartache. Don't let the judges or the critics ruin what is a joyful and very satisfying experience. We think alike, gents.

[Glen]

Quite true, Nick. But... figure painters - and modelers in general, for that matter - are constantly constantly being influenced by others to conform to certain standards, methods, or styles. Sometimes these are good; sometimes they are not. I wonder how many hobbyists retreated into their own world when they failed, or simply didn't embrace, someone else's standard.


Cheers,

Glen

[Nicholas Ball]

I think that is the whole point of painting--- one's own enjoyment.

I would be interested in seeing some of your work Peter, it sounds inspiring

[Glen]

Ah, I get it. I had a feeling that's what you meant, just wasn't absolutely positive. Gil Elvgren used similar techniques for painting hair. Visible brush strokes would often follow the curl or flow of the hair. Variations were used to paint lace. If you look at his skin tones, you see a lot of yellows, red-browns, violets, and purples; the first in the highs, the latter three in the shadows. They really seem to pop the flesh tones.


I agree about the 'exercise in precision'. I found myself going that way until I started painting with an unassisted viewing distance of 15-18 inches. That's where I look at my figures and decide whether I need more or I can stop. Rather than paint precise flowers and leaves on my Elf Pinup's lingerie, I opted for two-color leaf strokes and two-color flower dots because at 15 or so inches, that's all you would see.


Great minds think alike...



Cheers,


Glen

[peter michael prow]

Oh I am enjoying my painting, for a change!
Glen, my stuff  wouldn't look any different, but I get a lot of satisfaction out of painting expressively, a bit of a painting epiphany to be honest! If the horse is galloping left to right then its quick brush strokes-left to right. Just going for it with big bold blocks of colour and not obsessing about detail, just shape. Randomly putting purples and reds into the mix to create unusual shadows.
They still look just like toy soldiers, but for once I'm enjoying the journey. My painting had completely turned into an exercise in precision, I invariably finished nothing. Somewhere along the way I forgot to enjoy it!
There's things with oils I'm learning, like how to control the transparent shades, but nothing is stressful, I actually look forward to painting now!

[PJDeluhery]

As long as you're having fun, Peter, that's all that matters. Enjoy!

[Glen]

>>you can paint in the flow of the figures movement<<


Peter, could you elaborate on this statement? Maybe a pic or two...?

Cheers,

Glen

[peter michael prow]

Greg is the best miniatures painter in the world, period!
What he does with shadow is amazing, his work is well known outside flat circles.

I use acrylics most days in some form (I heartily recommend Games Workshop acrylics btw, the quality is great-honestly better than vallejo and there are some unusual and very useful technical paints) and I get very good results on 3d figures with them,  and Most of the worlds finest painters use them for a reason, the results can be phenomenal.
But I find them such a chore! Oils are expressive and organic, you can paint in the flow of the figures movement, express in different styles-oils to me are poetry while acrylics are a technical tool. Maybe its because I have to use acrylic so often-I just like the change.

I'm very pleased with what I've got on my workbench at the moment-ten blue hussars and a finished Lassalle and of course the Hartischer Lifeguard
When I take a good picture I'll post em up

[PJDeluhery]

PJ-Im going to rise to that challenge! 
I use acrylics in my day job-never occurred to try them on a flat.

Best of luck to you, Peter! Looking forward to tales of your success.

As Mark says, Penny and Greg are two very good examples of Masters who paint flats using acrylics. Both are "reformed" oils painters.  So think of yourself as "ahead of the curve" of people switching to acrylics.  Our own Roger is no slouch either! Have a look at his great work on this site.

I think what matters is not what media you use, but whether you are comfortable with and in control of your media. I started with acrylics, but soon found them limiting; whereas, I took to oils almost immediately.  They just fit my style.  I just don't "get" acrylics. Doesn't make them wrong - just not for me.

I gotta believe that if you use acrylics already in your work, it will be MUCH easier for you to paint flats. When you learn the technique, if you want to move to oils, fine. You may already know many of the principles and techniques that we here have struggled to learn.

Other than some paint colors, most of the techniques we discuss here apply whether you are painting in oils or acrylics. GOOD LUCK!

[marko]

Take a look at Penny Meyer's and Greg Di Franco's work to see what is possible in acrylics as two examples of magic possible.


Mark 

[peter michael prow]

PJ-Im going to rise to that challenge! 
I use acrylics in my day job-never occurred to try them on a flat.

[PJDeluhery]

I think a big help for a newcomer to flats  might be advice on how to get the best out of oils. Chances are that they have discovered flats  via military  or fantasy modelling which is  almost always done with acrylic paint.
Oils are very different-transparencies,glazing etc and require much re learning (which is fun but also daunting)
Im learning the hard way and getting through lots of paint stripper ...

I'll argue that with you!     I advise newbies to stick with whatever media they already know. I think it's too hard to learn a new media AND flat techniques at the same time - unless you're REALLY good! 

Start slow and remember its a journey not a destination.  There are some here who do an excellent job on flats with acrylics, so flats can certainly be painted to a very high standard in acrylics - though not by me   I've seen some painters on CMON who could make the jump in a heartbeat.

[peter michael prow]

Thats right-Neckel napoleonics do appear at Brlinner, albeit in groups, although that is no problem- compared to other modelling genres, flats are quite good value.
Neckel has the blue king figures though-I wish I could get a reply!
Kindly, Ive been introduced to Frau Ochel now and within the kieler, Bock and Grunewald catalogues there are many more beautiful figures than I can paint in a lifetime .
Hopefully there will be a box brimming with ancients and napoleonics winging it's way to me soon

[Joerg]

As far as I know, Charles is right with the Neckel Napoleonics.

Scholtz has a "detailed search-mask" for quick research. Just type Neckel.

Normally Scholtz sells only packages, but you can have every figure in stock as a single piece (with additions in price)
Years ago I needed some additional medieval masons and got them - for a item price of 2 EUR plus shipping.

Joerg