Knight on tournament

[Hannibal]

Yes Jan !!!! THANK YOU   


Indeed all four lions are wrongly oriented …. and are to be 'defaced' and painted correctly.  This is cooling down a little bit my enthusiam to paint it fastly after having try to find this flat for several year...





I would have seen as I am aware of the heraldic rules and orientation...


Mark, the paintings you showed lower here have been correctly painted  !!!!

[Kulmbach]

Unfortunately has the left figure the beast (the lionl) wrongly engraved. It should have been turned forward. As now it´s on flight, a sign of cowardice according to the manual of Heraldry. It is not the only figure in the Müller´s tournament set that is wrongly engraved.
Jan

[Hannibal]

Received and cleaned, a bit more preparation work however , remove coat of arms for Simon to adjust to picture below, and select what side from the two pictures hereunder (best profile).…


 Henry XVI, Duke of Bavaria-Landshut (1386-1450)
 Simon de Lalaing, Lord of Montignies and Hantes (1405-1477)






Thank you for your help !!!

[Hannibal]

Super Christoph !!
I found more information about his life and details on his coat of arms on internet.
I will explain in more details when painting the flat (still to come …).


I also got more information on the other knight, identified now with a name, dates, and details on coat of arms.  Also in a special work-in-progress.


I accumulate documentation on their life, background.  Whether they participate to a same tournament, I ignore, but a painter can create situation like this as they lived in the same range of 30 years in the same century, even if living at 800 km from each other...


Thanks a lot for this excellent start ….


Michel

[Christoph]

Hello Michel,
yes looks like it can only be opend with internet explorer. I failed too by using firefox...
But here it is:



Christoph

[Hannibal]

Dear all


Thanks for your quick support ...


Christoph, I could not open the armorial index, only get the following panel on Google and on Google Chrome..





But I found a picture of the armorials of the Golden Fleece from Lukas de Heere in the Sint Baafskathedraal in Ghent (Belgium) on
https://lukasweb.be/en/artwork/armorial-plates-order-golden-fleece-74

although the picture is dubbled, but very well readable.



and your link to Wikipedia, with the helmet on the right side, but I could not guess the colour of the squares, which here appear to be be silver (white).


He is from the same period (1407-1477) as the Bavarian Knight, for whom I have to do more searches on his life...


If I remember, these flats could be found at   
http://www.modellbau-holland-merten.de/details_figuren_flach_sonstige/te12.htm

Thank you tinman too for your reference for the Duke of Bayern, I found the helmet and coat of arms at 1/3 of the book, very useful for painting the details of the knight.  I have to find a name of the same period as Lalaing to imagine a tournament between them, during their life ….


Very useful.
The flat have a very average casting quality and I will have some preparation work on them before starting to paint ..

Very exciting project as I was searching for the Duke of Bayern flat since many years …..
Michel



 






Thank

[Christoph]

Hello Hannibal,
the figur shows clearly the chain of the order of the golden fleece around the knights neck.

So I have a look here: http://expositions.bnf.fr/livres/armorial/index.htm

The six knight from the rear is Simon de Lalaing and his coat of arms matched the arms engraved on the figure, even the helmet looking close to the engraving.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_de_Lalaing

Christoph

[snagy]

Interesting discussion!
I like it!
Sandor

[tinman]

Hi Hannibal:


I'm guessing that L. Madlener used "The Armorial of Conrad Grunenberg" when designing these flat figures for Hans Muller. This manuscript is in the Bavarian State Library.  (The figure on the left is, as you note, painted with the livery of the Duke of Bavaria. The set also contains a Duke of Bavaria figure---MP 59.) The figures for this set depict a tournament in Bavaria ca. 1450.


https://www.wdl.org/en/item/14689/


The heraldry for Bavarian knights starts on page 306.

[marko]

Interesting research!


I confess to heraldry still being somewhat of a mystery to me - fascinating subject however.


mark 

[Hannibal]

I searched for the heraldry of the second knight, and could only find it as being the coat of arms of Krementchouk, city in Ukraine

Kremenchuk was supposedly founded in 1571. 

The name Kremenchuk is explained as deriving from the word "kremen" -

flint

(a mineral) because the city is located on a giant chert plate. An alternative explanation says that "Kremenchuk" is the Turkish for "small fortress".

However this fortress appeared to have been built only in 1571 by Sigmund II, king of Poland?

Therefore it is highly improbable that a knight of the XII-XIIth century would have been involved in a tournament in Bavaria with a coat of arms above "Azure a fess argent"  as painted below….

Therefore I will look for another coat of arms if that second knight will be painted by the first one; for a knight living in the same period and neighbourhood…..

[Hannibal]

Thanks Mark,


the left knight, I have too is e Bavarian Knight, with known heraldy, House of Wittelsbach.


I will adapt the current knight to this heraldy below on the horse and the shield …

[marko]

I have the attached but, unfortunately no citation.  (Bistulfi shows a similar Bavarian heraldry on his figure on the left on his site as well but not that of the right.)


mark 

[Hannibal]

I am looking for the identification of the knight of this flat issued by Menz, No MP 45  (or 44) in order to paint the appropriate heraldy…...