Ban Flats!!

[Hannibal]

When reading the site of Eindhoven Scale Model Competition during the competition this week-end, but being on vacation in Sout Turkey, I found very interesting pages available to everyone, which is not existing or available or very rough in any of the other international competitions.

I do encourage you to read them, in particular the jugements criteria for the juges, and classes .... It could inspire a 'guidelines for judging flats' in shows, by Kulmbach 2017 ....

The three guides are attached, in English, Dutch and German.
I am currenty translating them in French for our club, and some French clubs quiet poor in such elements, for possible improvements and uniformization.  Can UK and USA also have a look and comments.

I remember also in one club in Belgium, where the judge sheet listing the pieces to be judged by participant and category, was requesting to fill in three columns the three best top pièces in decreasing order, appreciated by each juge as being the best, second and third best on which his evaluation would rate the painter (the best of the three).  This allowed after to compare if each judge has the same figure or not, explaining possible variations (when more than one or few pièces are registered fo cours?  In most other, general cotation, not defendable, simplistic .... or judges discussin together around each candidate (!!! = concerted judgment ..).

http://www.scalemodelchallenge.com/contest/

Till now it is one among the best defined (can't guarantee being followed ..) set of written rules seen.

[Glen]

I've been watching this thread. I'm thinking this is much ado about nothing. One individual makes an off-the-cuff comment and everyone is up in arms. While this person being a judge may have added some weight - however undeserved - to his words, it doesn't seem to have had any effect on the rest of the modeling and figure communities. I have yet to see any original commentary about this on any other modeling site and certainly no one supporting the idea.


I think flats are safe...


Glen

[zinnmartina]

And by the way I do not have an interest to enter a modelling competition.
I must not run for a so called Price.

[Nicholas Ball]

Hi Martina,

why is good question, unfortunately some people don't like flat figures!!

As I have been told, Kulmbach was always flat figures, but introduced the rounds years ago. Even then, some of the traditional flat guys didn't like that either, so it seems to work both ways.

Art is Art. although most members will know my thoughts on Modern art!!

[zinnmartina]

A Ban?

Why? What about the liberty of art?

A Kulmbach without flats?

[Hannibal]

Can't help much, as it seems to be a UK issue.

On the 'continent'  Figurines historic  (that includes 'civil') and fantastic, then flats separate (more an more).  What is missing are dioramas (for figurines) and 'others' or miniatures or bas relief, ... such as the Retuerto & some non engravers works, very nice, but not included in the other three catégories; perhaps we can also name them "Other créations" as these are unique pièces.

Twelve categorie seem excessive to me , but if you multiply classes, we multiply the levels (master, confirmed, novice) which overall lead to the same amount of rewoks, just given on another manner.  Yes, I orgot also the "Greens", creactions engraved not painted yet .... as the judgment criteria (non written also) are not on painting, but on the creation itself and engravin technics.

[Salter]

The discussion on the ban of flats is very interesting.From a comment at a recent show the discussion has moved to judging and now to World Expo.This is all finebut doesnt address Uk issues.
Most of the local shows in the UK will include a class for flats from say about 12 classes.Some will allow flats in other classes but not many as they are seen as another disipline and should be judged as they are.
This year the BMSS dropped flats which i find really strange.However if you look at the UK most known competition Euromilitaire flats are only allowed in their own classes.At Euro 36 classes are availiable 5 of these are for flats.Two are for Zinnfigure these are are well attended.The next two classes are Bas Relief not so well attended as the commercial availiabilityis minimal.Finallythe last class is for boxed dioramas.Sadly this disipline isnt as popular as it was.Personally this is a bit sad as when viewed they are visually very good.Also at Euro  there will not be a trade stand for flats which is a great oppurtunity missed.
In my opinion some of these issues need to be tackled here before you move to other subjects.
Dave S

[Brian]

 "gas factory" hahaha

[errant49]

In France we call all that a "gas factory"
Remember it is just a pleasant artictic hobby without any particular stake
Also consider that rules do not always fit well with artictic licence
Eric

[Hannibal]

Please apologise, Nick !

[Nicholas Ball]

Michel, I think you may have misunderstood, the organisers are trying to make sure that flats are shown to be as important as rounds and are currently mixing them in with all the categories to show this.

As the BFFS have now asked them for their consideration to make separate categories, they are now happy to consider it.

It's all good

[Mike G]

On behalf of the stone figure carvers association of America I am both shocked and appalled

[Hannibal]

Is canevas painting a lesser art too? or Miniatures?

[Nicholas Ball]

When we were in America, it was discussed that the World Expo should introduce flat figure classes as they are getting so popular.
Last night, I e.mailed 2 of the organisers on this, and I have just had a reply from one of them Jim Rogatis.

He says that this is something that has been discussed from time to time at the MMSI Chicago shows, but where worried that by creating a separate category it would slight flats as if it was a lesser art.
Isn't it nice that the organisers of the most prestigious modelling show actually appreciate what we do and are on our side. 
I have to congratulate and thank them for their support and consideration

[Nicholas Ball]

Well, I blame the Glue manufacturer's, without them everything would be one piece!!! hahahaha

And so m'lud, I rest the case for the defence.